Seems impossible to migrate from Groupwise6 to Exchange2003?

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Repent34

I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B, Configuration
Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise Messaging Functionality".
Where the breakdown is is that MS's paper is written for Groupwise5 which
can use NWADMN32. The paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since
Groupwise6 uses Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps that
I cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this paper that nothing has
changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures will work. Say waht?

I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I would think
that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them that it shouldn't be this
difficult.

Anybody tackled this yet??

c

In Disguise

Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped you from
upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?

Repent34 wrote:
> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B, Configuration
> Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise Messaging Functionality".
> Where the breakdown is is that MS's paper is written for Groupwise5 which
> can use NWADMN32. The paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since
> Groupwise6 uses Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps that
> I cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this paper that nothing has
> changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures will work. Say waht?
>
> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I would think
> that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them that it shouldn't be this
> difficult.
>
> Anybody tackled this yet??
>
> c
>
>

Repent34

Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO Netware/Groupwise
sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction and I doubt they will be in
business much longer. Groupwise is ugly and my users hate it. I do to. You
asked.

c

"In Disguise" wrote in message
news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped you from
> upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>
>
> Repent34 wrote:
>> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>> Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise Messaging
>> Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's paper is written for
>> Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The paper is written with NWADMN32 in
>> mind. Since Groupwise6 uses Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are
>> several key steps that I cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in
>> this paper that nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures
>> will work. Say waht?
>>
>> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I would
>> think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them that it shouldn't
>> be this difficult.
>>
>> Anybody tackled this yet??
>>
>> c
>>

In Disguise

It has this to do with it:

1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few reasons -
political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve a particular
problem, and so on.

2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem, then
you may already have the solution within your current email system, but
lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the particular problem
may require a change. If you already have the solution in front of you,
it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper to solve that problem with what
yo have than to rip and replace an entire system.

Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as you
can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the web
browser of your choice.

How do you quantify, "ugly"?

How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise sucks!"? If
it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance is to blame - not
the technology.

Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and administrated,
GroupWise (like any other email system, operating system, application,
et al) should be relatively problem-free. If you have a mis-configured
or under-powered server, then you can hardly blame anyone but those
administering / supporting the system for the problems you've run into.

FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from Exchange
to GW - do what you can to get what you have working properly first,
then if you absolutely cannot get it to work the way you want, then
consider changing.

Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is stupid
at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired employees who can't
see past their own "religious war" of technology.

Repent34 wrote:
> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO Netware/Groupwise
> sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction and I doubt they will be in
> business much longer. Groupwise is ugly and my users hate it. I do to. You
> asked.
>
> c
>
>
> "In Disguise" wrote in message
> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>
>>Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped you from
>>upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>
>>
>>Repent34 wrote:
>>
>>>I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise Messaging
>>>Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's paper is written for
>>>Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The paper is written with NWADMN32 in
>>>mind. Since Groupwise6 uses Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are
>>>several key steps that I cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in
>>>this paper that nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures
>>>will work. Say waht?
>>>
>>>I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I would
>>>think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them that it shouldn't
>>>be this difficult.
>>>
>>>Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>
>>>c
>>>
>
>

Repent34

You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer all of your
questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on the street about
Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only reason Microsoft doesn't
buy out Novell and dig a big hole and dump it in there is because of the
DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion speaks for itself.

Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that I wanted
to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm doing what I'm doing.
The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't have an answer to my question,
that's fine. Please drive through.

PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.

"In Disguise" wrote in message
news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> It has this to do with it:
>
> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few reasons -
> political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve a particular
> problem, and so on.
>
> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem, then you
> may already have the solution within your current email system, but lack
> the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the particular problem may
> require a change. If you already have the solution in front of you, it
> may be a whole lot easier / cheaper to solve that problem with what yo
> have than to rip and replace an entire system.
>
> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as you can
> use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the web browser of
> your choice.
>
> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>
> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise sucks!"? If
> it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance is to blame - not the
> technology.
>
> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and administrated,
> GroupWise (like any other email system, operating system, application, et
> al) should be relatively problem-free. If you have a mis-configured or
> under-powered server, then you can hardly blame anyone but those
> administering / supporting the system for the problems you've run into.
>
> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from Exchange to
> GW - do what you can to get what you have working properly first, then if
> you absolutely cannot get it to work the way you want, then consider
> changing.
>
> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is stupid
> at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired employees who can't see
> past their own "religious war" of technology.
>
>
>
> Repent34 wrote:
>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO Netware/Groupwise
>> sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction and I doubt they will be
>> in business much longer. Groupwise is ugly and my users hate it. I do
>> to. You asked.
>>
>> c
>>
>>
>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped you from
>>>upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>
>>>
>>>Repent34 wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise Messaging
>>>>Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's paper is written for
>>>>Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The paper is written with NWADMN32
>>>>in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are
>>>>several key steps that I cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in
>>>>this paper that nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures
>>>>will work. Say waht?
>>>>
>>>>I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I would
>>>>think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them that it
>>>>shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>
>>>>Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>
>>>>c
>>>>
>>

Bob Christian

Quest does have some good products.
CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.

"Repent34" wrote in message
news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer all of
> your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on the street
> about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only reason Microsoft
> doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and dump it in there is because
> of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion speaks for itself.
>
> Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that I wanted
> to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm doing what I'm doing.
> The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't have an answer to my question,
> that's fine. Please drive through.
>
> PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>
>
> "In Disguise" wrote in message
> news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> It has this to do with it:
>>
>> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few reasons -
>> political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve a particular
>> problem, and so on.
>>
>> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem, then
>> you may already have the solution within your current email system, but
>> lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the particular problem
>> may require a change. If you already have the solution in front of you,
>> it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper to solve that problem with what yo
>> have than to rip and replace an entire system.
>>
>> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as you
>> can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the web
>> browser of your choice.
>>
>> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>
>> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise sucks!"? If
>> it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance is to blame - not
>> the technology.
>>
>> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and administrated,
>> GroupWise (like any other email system, operating system, application, et
>> al) should be relatively problem-free. If you have a mis-configured or
>> under-powered server, then you can hardly blame anyone but those
>> administering / supporting the system for the problems you've run into.
>>
>> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from Exchange to
>> GW - do what you can to get what you have working properly first, then if
>> you absolutely cannot get it to work the way you want, then consider
>> changing.
>>
>> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is stupid
>> at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired employees who can't
>> see past their own "religious war" of technology.
>>
>>
>>
>> Repent34 wrote:
>>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO Netware/Groupwise
>>> sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction and I doubt they will be
>>> in business much longer. Groupwise is ugly and my users hate it. I do
>>> to. You asked.
>>>
>>> c
>>>
>>>
>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>>Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped you from
>>>>upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Repent34 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise Messaging
>>>>>Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's paper is written
>>>>>for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The paper is written with
>>>>>NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses Console1, and not NWADMN32,
>>>>>there are several key steps that I cannot replicate under Console1. MS
>>>>>states in this paper that nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these
>>>>>proceedures will work. Say waht?
>>>>>
>>>>>I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I would
>>>>>think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them that it
>>>>>shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>
>>>>>c
>>>>>
>>>
>

Tony

We are currently deciding between Groupwise 6.5 and Exchange 2003.

We didnt like Groupwise 6.0 as we couldnt get the Outlook 2003 connector
to work correctly with it.
Apparently thats now been fixed, and GW 6.5 goes beta soon ?

Whats the actual technical problem ? I use both Console1 and NWadmin so
know some of the differences.
Also could you use Imanager for any of these tasks ?

Bob Christian wrote:
> Quest does have some good products.
> CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.
>
> "Repent34" wrote in message
> news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>
>>You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer all of
>>your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on the street
>>about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only reason Microsoft
>>doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and dump it in there is because
>>of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion speaks for itself.
>>
>>Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that I wanted
>>to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm doing what I'm doing.
>>The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't have an answer to my question,
>>that's fine. Please drive through.
>>
>>PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>>
>>
>>"In Disguise" wrote in message
>>news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>It has this to do with it:
>>>
>>>1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few reasons -
>>>political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve a particular
>>>problem, and so on.
>>>
>>>2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem, then
>>>you may already have the solution within your current email system, but
>>>lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the particular problem
>>>may require a change. If you already have the solution in front of you,
>>>it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper to solve that problem with what yo
>>>have than to rip and replace an entire system.
>>>
>>>Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as you
>>>can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the web
>>>browser of your choice.
>>>
>>>How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>>
>>>How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise sucks!"? If
>>>it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance is to blame - not
>>>the technology.
>>>
>>>Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and administrated,
>>>GroupWise (like any other email system, operating system, application, et
>>>al) should be relatively problem-free. If you have a mis-configured or
>>>under-powered server, then you can hardly blame anyone but those
>>>administering / supporting the system for the problems you've run into.
>>>
>>>FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from Exchange to
>>>GW - do what you can to get what you have working properly first, then if
>>>you absolutely cannot get it to work the way you want, then consider
>>>changing.
>>>
>>>Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is stupid
>>>at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired employees who can't
>>>see past their own "religious war" of technology.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Repent34 wrote:
>>>
>>>>Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO Netware/Groupwise
>>>>sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction and I doubt they will be
>>>>in business much longer. Groupwise is ugly and my users hate it. I do
>>>>to. You asked.
>>>>
>>>>c
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped you from
>>>>>upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>>Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise Messaging
>>>>>>Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's paper is written
>>>>>>for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The paper is written with
>>>>>>NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses Console1, and not NWADMN32,
>>>>>>there are several key steps that I cannot replicate under Console1. MS
>>>>>>states in this paper that nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these
>>>>>>proceedures will work. Say waht?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I would
>>>>>>think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them that it
>>>>>>shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>c
>>>>>>
>>>>
>
>

In Disguise

Tony,

How about GroupWise 7? http://www.iwantgroupwise.com/

Tony wrote:
> We are currently deciding between Groupwise 6.5 and Exchange 2003.
>
> We didnt like Groupwise 6.0 as we couldnt get the Outlook 2003 connector
> to work correctly with it.
> Apparently thats now been fixed, and GW 6.5 goes beta soon ?
>
> Whats the actual technical problem ? I use both Console1 and NWadmin so
> know some of the differences.
> Also could you use Imanager for any of these tasks ?
>
>
>
> Bob Christian wrote:
>
>> Quest does have some good products.
>> CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.
>>
>> "Repent34" wrote in message
>> news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer all
>>> of your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on the
>>> street about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only reason
>>> Microsoft doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and dump it in
>>> there is because of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion speaks for
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that I
>>> wanted to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm doing
>>> what I'm doing. The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't have an
>>> answer to my question, that's fine. Please drive through.
>>>
>>> PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>>>
>>>
>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>> news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> It has this to do with it:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few reasons
>>>> - political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve a
>>>> particular problem, and so on.
>>>>
>>>> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem,
>>>> then you may already have the solution within your current email
>>>> system, but lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the
>>>> particular problem may require a change. If you already have the
>>>> solution in front of you, it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper to
>>>> solve that problem with what yo have than to rip and replace an
>>>> entire system.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as
>>>> you can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the
>>>> web browser of your choice.
>>>>
>>>> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>>>
>>>> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise sucks!"?
>>>> If it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance is to blame
>>>> - not the technology.
>>>>
>>>> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and administrated,
>>>> GroupWise (like any other email system, operating system,
>>>> application, et al) should be relatively problem-free. If you have
>>>> a mis-configured or under-powered server, then you can hardly blame
>>>> anyone but those administering / supporting the system for the
>>>> problems you've run into.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from
>>>> Exchange to GW - do what you can to get what you have working
>>>> properly first, then if you absolutely cannot get it to work the way
>>>> you want, then consider changing.
>>>>
>>>> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is
>>>> stupid at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired employees
>>>> who can't see past their own "religious war" of technology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO
>>>>> Netware/Groupwise sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction
>>>>> and I doubt they will be in business much longer. Groupwise is ugly
>>>>> and my users hate it. I do to. You asked.
>>>>>
>>>>> c
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped you
>>>>>> from upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>>> Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise
>>>>>>> Messaging Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's
>>>>>>> paper is written for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The
>>>>>>> paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses
>>>>>>> Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps that I
>>>>>>> cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this paper that
>>>>>>> nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures will
>>>>>>> work. Say waht?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I
>>>>>>> would think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them
>>>>>>> that it shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>

Tony

Sorry my fault, thought GW6.5 was seqoiua. 7 is the new version , with
apparently (not tried beta yet) outlook connectors.I dislike the GW
client itself, and even strong supporters of it admit that for "basic
users" it doesnt have the look and feel of Outlook.

My only worry with Novell is they are moving very Linux based, and
whilst they state they are keeping the netware core and running it
alongside I wonder how long it will be before a big re-training exercise
may be needed. At that point I could see some companies retraining
people in MS rather than Linux.

Also if deciding check out the costs. Novell usually charge more per
client access, but less for the actual product. MS are usually more for
the product but less on client license. Therefore if you have a lot of
users it may make more fiscal sense to go Outlook

Additionally I dont know how well Groupwise would plug into say a Live
Comms Server, Project Server , Shaepoint server which can help end users
keep lots of information in one central location.

In Disguise wrote:
> Tony,
>
> How about GroupWise 7? http://www.iwantgroupwise.com/
>
> Tony wrote:
>
>> We are currently deciding between Groupwise 6.5 and Exchange 2003.
>>
>> We didnt like Groupwise 6.0 as we couldnt get the Outlook 2003
>> connector to work correctly with it.
>> Apparently thats now been fixed, and GW 6.5 goes beta soon ?
>>
>> Whats the actual technical problem ? I use both Console1 and NWadmin
>> so know some of the differences.
>> Also could you use Imanager for any of these tasks ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Christian wrote:
>>
>>> Quest does have some good products.
>>> CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.
>>>
>>> "Repent34" wrote in message
>>> news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer all
>>>> of your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on the
>>>> street about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only reason
>>>> Microsoft doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and dump it in
>>>> there is because of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion speaks for
>>>> itself.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that I
>>>> wanted to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm doing
>>>> what I'm doing. The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't have an
>>>> answer to my question, that's fine. Please drive through.
>>>>
>>>> PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>> news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> It has this to do with it:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few
>>>>> reasons - political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve
>>>>> a particular problem, and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem,
>>>>> then you may already have the solution within your current email
>>>>> system, but lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the
>>>>> particular problem may require a change. If you already have the
>>>>> solution in front of you, it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper to
>>>>> solve that problem with what yo have than to rip and replace an
>>>>> entire system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as
>>>>> you can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the
>>>>> web browser of your choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise sucks!"?
>>>>> If it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance is to blame
>>>>> - not the technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and administrated,
>>>>> GroupWise (like any other email system, operating system,
>>>>> application, et al) should be relatively problem-free. If you have
>>>>> a mis-configured or under-powered server, then you can hardly blame
>>>>> anyone but those administering / supporting the system for the
>>>>> problems you've run into.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from
>>>>> Exchange to GW - do what you can to get what you have working
>>>>> properly first, then if you absolutely cannot get it to work the
>>>>> way you want, then consider changing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is
>>>>> stupid at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired employees
>>>>> who can't see past their own "religious war" of technology.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO
>>>>>> Netware/Groupwise sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction
>>>>>> and I doubt they will be in business much longer. Groupwise is
>>>>>> ugly and my users hate it. I do to. You asked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> c
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped
>>>>>>> you from upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>>>> Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise
>>>>>>>> Messaging Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's
>>>>>>>> paper is written for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The
>>>>>>>> paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses
>>>>>>>> Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps that I
>>>>>>>> cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this paper that
>>>>>>>> nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures will
>>>>>>>> work. Say waht?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I
>>>>>>>> would think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them
>>>>>>>> that it shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>

In Disguise

Tony,

You may change your mind after reading a review on it.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1832958,00.asp

Tony wrote:
> Sorry my fault, thought GW6.5 was seqoiua. 7 is the new version , with
> apparently (not tried beta yet) outlook connectors.I dislike the GW
> client itself, and even strong supporters of it admit that for "basic
> users" it doesnt have the look and feel of Outlook.
>
> My only worry with Novell is they are moving very Linux based, and
> whilst they state they are keeping the netware core and running it
> alongside I wonder how long it will be before a big re-training exercise
> may be needed. At that point I could see some companies retraining
> people in MS rather than Linux.
>
> Also if deciding check out the costs. Novell usually charge more per
> client access, but less for the actual product. MS are usually more for
> the product but less on client license. Therefore if you have a lot of
> users it may make more fiscal sense to go Outlook
>
> Additionally I dont know how well Groupwise would plug into say a Live
> Comms Server, Project Server , Shaepoint server which can help end users
> keep lots of information in one central location.
>
>
>
> In Disguise wrote:
>
>> Tony,
>>
>> How about GroupWise 7? http://www.iwantgroupwise.com/
>>
>> Tony wrote:
>>
>>> We are currently deciding between Groupwise 6.5 and Exchange 2003.
>>>
>>> We didnt like Groupwise 6.0 as we couldnt get the Outlook 2003
>>> connector to work correctly with it.
>>> Apparently thats now been fixed, and GW 6.5 goes beta soon ?
>>>
>>> Whats the actual technical problem ? I use both Console1 and NWadmin
>>> so know some of the differences.
>>> Also could you use Imanager for any of these tasks ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Christian wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quest does have some good products.
>>>> CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.
>>>>
>>>> "Repent34" wrote in message
>>>> news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer all
>>>>> of your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on the
>>>>> street about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only
>>>>> reason Microsoft doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and dump
>>>>> it in there is because of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion
>>>>> speaks for itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that I
>>>>> wanted to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm doing
>>>>> what I'm doing. The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't have an
>>>>> answer to my question, that's fine. Please drive through.
>>>>>
>>>>> PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>> news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>> It has this to do with it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few
>>>>>> reasons - political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve
>>>>>> a particular problem, and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem,
>>>>>> then you may already have the solution within your current email
>>>>>> system, but lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the
>>>>>> particular problem may require a change. If you already have the
>>>>>> solution in front of you, it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper
>>>>>> to solve that problem with what yo have than to rip and replace an
>>>>>> entire system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as
>>>>>> you can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the
>>>>>> web browser of your choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise
>>>>>> sucks!"? If it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance
>>>>>> is to blame - not the technology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and
>>>>>> administrated, GroupWise (like any other email system, operating
>>>>>> system, application, et al) should be relatively problem-free. If
>>>>>> you have a mis-configured or under-powered server, then you can
>>>>>> hardly blame anyone but those administering / supporting the
>>>>>> system for the problems you've run into.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from
>>>>>> Exchange to GW - do what you can to get what you have working
>>>>>> properly first, then if you absolutely cannot get it to work the
>>>>>> way you want, then consider changing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is
>>>>>> stupid at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired
>>>>>> employees who can't see past their own "religious war" of technology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO
>>>>>>> Netware/Groupwise sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction
>>>>>>> and I doubt they will be in business much longer. Groupwise is
>>>>>>> ugly and my users hate it. I do to. You asked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped
>>>>>>>> you from upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>>>>> Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise
>>>>>>>>> Messaging Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's
>>>>>>>>> paper is written for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The
>>>>>>>>> paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses
>>>>>>>>> Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps that I
>>>>>>>>> cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this paper that
>>>>>>>>> nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures will
>>>>>>>>> work. Say waht?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I
>>>>>>>>> would think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them
>>>>>>>>> that it shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

In Disguise

Tony,

You may also want to check out www.iwantgroupwise.com for some other info.

Tony wrote:
> Sorry my fault, thought GW6.5 was seqoiua. 7 is the new version , with
> apparently (not tried beta yet) outlook connectors.I dislike the GW
> client itself, and even strong supporters of it admit that for "basic
> users" it doesnt have the look and feel of Outlook.
>
> My only worry with Novell is they are moving very Linux based, and
> whilst they state they are keeping the netware core and running it
> alongside I wonder how long it will be before a big re-training exercise
> may be needed. At that point I could see some companies retraining
> people in MS rather than Linux.
>
> Also if deciding check out the costs. Novell usually charge more per
> client access, but less for the actual product. MS are usually more for
> the product but less on client license. Therefore if you have a lot of
> users it may make more fiscal sense to go Outlook
>
> Additionally I dont know how well Groupwise would plug into say a Live
> Comms Server, Project Server , Shaepoint server which can help end users
> keep lots of information in one central location.
>
>
>
> In Disguise wrote:
>
>> Tony,
>>
>> How about GroupWise 7? http://www.iwantgroupwise.com/
>>
>> Tony wrote:
>>
>>> We are currently deciding between Groupwise 6.5 and Exchange 2003.
>>>
>>> We didnt like Groupwise 6.0 as we couldnt get the Outlook 2003
>>> connector to work correctly with it.
>>> Apparently thats now been fixed, and GW 6.5 goes beta soon ?
>>>
>>> Whats the actual technical problem ? I use both Console1 and NWadmin
>>> so know some of the differences.
>>> Also could you use Imanager for any of these tasks ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Christian wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quest does have some good products.
>>>> CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.
>>>>
>>>> "Repent34" wrote in message
>>>> news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer all
>>>>> of your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on the
>>>>> street about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only
>>>>> reason Microsoft doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and dump
>>>>> it in there is because of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion
>>>>> speaks for itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that I
>>>>> wanted to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm doing
>>>>> what I'm doing. The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't have an
>>>>> answer to my question, that's fine. Please drive through.
>>>>>
>>>>> PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>> news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>> It has this to do with it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few
>>>>>> reasons - political, technological, lack of admin skills, to solve
>>>>>> a particular problem, and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem,
>>>>>> then you may already have the solution within your current email
>>>>>> system, but lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the
>>>>>> particular problem may require a change. If you already have the
>>>>>> solution in front of you, it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper
>>>>>> to solve that problem with what yo have than to rip and replace an
>>>>>> entire system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from, as
>>>>>> you can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as the
>>>>>> web browser of your choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise
>>>>>> sucks!"? If it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance
>>>>>> is to blame - not the technology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and
>>>>>> administrated, GroupWise (like any other email system, operating
>>>>>> system, application, et al) should be relatively problem-free. If
>>>>>> you have a mis-configured or under-powered server, then you can
>>>>>> hardly blame anyone but those administering / supporting the
>>>>>> system for the problems you've run into.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from
>>>>>> Exchange to GW - do what you can to get what you have working
>>>>>> properly first, then if you absolutely cannot get it to work the
>>>>>> way you want, then consider changing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is
>>>>>> stupid at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired
>>>>>> employees who can't see past their own "religious war" of technology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO
>>>>>>> Netware/Groupwise sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong direction
>>>>>>> and I doubt they will be in business much longer. Groupwise is
>>>>>>> ugly and my users hate it. I do to. You asked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped
>>>>>>>> you from upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>>>>> Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise
>>>>>>>>> Messaging Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's
>>>>>>>>> paper is written for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The
>>>>>>>>> paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses
>>>>>>>>> Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps that I
>>>>>>>>> cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this paper that
>>>>>>>>> nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures will
>>>>>>>>> work. Say waht?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue. I
>>>>>>>>> would think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to them
>>>>>>>>> that it shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

Tony

If 7 does support outlook 2k3 as well as web access (and performs all
functions of Exchange) then from the end user point of view it looks the
same. Hence user "experience" doesnt become an issue

If we also disregard cost for a second as well it comes down to a couple
of points for a sysadmin (imo)

1/ Stability/Uptime.
2/ Ease of backend administration/ Integration

And I agree on both Novell wins (Unless you are running pure AD only).
My experience is Novell products dont go wrong very often, but when they
do go wrong they arent usually solved by a quick reboot.

However nowadays its much easier to recruit people with previous MS
knowledge rather than Novell and cheaper, even if you need more of them.
When decisions are removed from pure technical , and become cost based
by financial officers I get the feeling some companies would prefer to
play safe with the MS option. (What was the old saying you dont get
fired for buying IBM?). With Novell moving to linux as well ,I think
some IT managers may be a bit wary and either play safe, or not jump
into the market as much as they may otherwise have.

Groupwise 7 on download now with Suse Linux bundled. I`ll compare to my
exchange 2k3 and see what we think

In Disguise wrote:
> Tony,
>
> You may also want to check out www.iwantgroupwise.com for some other info.
>
> Tony wrote:
>
>> Sorry my fault, thought GW6.5 was seqoiua. 7 is the new version , with
>> apparently (not tried beta yet) outlook connectors.I dislike the GW
>> client itself, and even strong supporters of it admit that for "basic
>> users" it doesnt have the look and feel of Outlook.
>>
>> My only worry with Novell is they are moving very Linux based, and
>> whilst they state they are keeping the netware core and running it
>> alongside I wonder how long it will be before a big re-training
>> exercise may be needed. At that point I could see some companies
>> retraining people in MS rather than Linux.
>>
>> Also if deciding check out the costs. Novell usually charge more per
>> client access, but less for the actual product. MS are usually more
>> for the product but less on client license. Therefore if you have a
>> lot of users it may make more fiscal sense to go Outlook
>>
>> Additionally I dont know how well Groupwise would plug into say a Live
>> Comms Server, Project Server , Shaepoint server which can help end
>> users keep lots of information in one central location.
>>
>>
>>
>> In Disguise wrote:
>>
>>> Tony,
>>>
>>> How about GroupWise 7? http://www.iwantgroupwise.com/
>>>
>>> Tony wrote:
>>>
>>>> We are currently deciding between Groupwise 6.5 and Exchange 2003.
>>>>
>>>> We didnt like Groupwise 6.0 as we couldnt get the Outlook 2003
>>>> connector to work correctly with it.
>>>> Apparently thats now been fixed, and GW 6.5 goes beta soon ?
>>>>
>>>> Whats the actual technical problem ? I use both Console1 and NWadmin
>>>> so know some of the differences.
>>>> Also could you use Imanager for any of these tasks ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Christian wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Quest does have some good products.
>>>>> CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Repent34" wrote in message
>>>>> news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>> You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer
>>>>>> all of your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on
>>>>>> the street about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only
>>>>>> reason Microsoft doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and
>>>>>> dump it in there is because of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5 billion
>>>>>> speaks for itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that
>>>>>> I wanted to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm
>>>>>> doing what I'm doing. The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't
>>>>>> have an answer to my question, that's fine. Please drive through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has this to do with it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few
>>>>>>> reasons - political, technological, lack of admin skills, to
>>>>>>> solve a particular problem, and so on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular problem,
>>>>>>> then you may already have the solution within your current email
>>>>>>> system, but lack the knowledge / skills to implement it, or the
>>>>>>> particular problem may require a change. If you already have the
>>>>>>> solution in front of you, it may be a whole lot easier / cheaper
>>>>>>> to solve that problem with what yo have than to rip and replace
>>>>>>> an entire system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from,
>>>>>>> as you can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well as
>>>>>>> the web browser of your choice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise
>>>>>>> sucks!"? If it's because you don't understand it, then ignorance
>>>>>>> is to blame - not the technology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and
>>>>>>> administrated, GroupWise (like any other email system, operating
>>>>>>> system, application, et al) should be relatively problem-free.
>>>>>>> If you have a mis-configured or under-powered server, then you
>>>>>>> can hardly blame anyone but those administering / supporting the
>>>>>>> system for the problems you've run into.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from
>>>>>>> Exchange to GW - do what you can to get what you have working
>>>>>>> properly first, then if you absolutely cannot get it to work the
>>>>>>> way you want, then consider changing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company is
>>>>>>> stupid at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired
>>>>>>> employees who can't see past their own "religious war" of
>>>>>>> technology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO
>>>>>>>> Netware/Groupwise sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong
>>>>>>>> direction and I doubt they will be in business much longer.
>>>>>>>> Groupwise is ugly and my users hate it. I do to. You asked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped
>>>>>>>>> you from upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>>>>>> Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise
>>>>>>>>>> Messaging Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's
>>>>>>>>>> paper is written for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The
>>>>>>>>>> paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6 uses
>>>>>>>>>> Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps that I
>>>>>>>>>> cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this paper that
>>>>>>>>>> nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these proceedures will
>>>>>>>>>> work. Say waht?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue.
>>>>>>>>>> I would think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to
>>>>>>>>>> them that it shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>

In Disguise

I work with a company that is very, very good with Novell stuff. I'd be
happy to pass your name on to them if you like. Who knows, maybe
you'll find that going with GroupWise 7 is going to be easier, cheaper,
and better than you first thought. ;)

Tony wrote:
> If 7 does support outlook 2k3 as well as web access (and performs all
> functions of Exchange) then from the end user point of view it looks the
> same. Hence user "experience" doesnt become an issue
>
> If we also disregard cost for a second as well it comes down to a couple
> of points for a sysadmin (imo)
>
> 1/ Stability/Uptime.
> 2/ Ease of backend administration/ Integration
>
> And I agree on both Novell wins (Unless you are running pure AD only).
> My experience is Novell products dont go wrong very often, but when they
> do go wrong they arent usually solved by a quick reboot.
>
> However nowadays its much easier to recruit people with previous MS
> knowledge rather than Novell and cheaper, even if you need more of them.
> When decisions are removed from pure technical , and become cost based
> by financial officers I get the feeling some companies would prefer to
> play safe with the MS option. (What was the old saying you dont get
> fired for buying IBM?). With Novell moving to linux as well ,I think
> some IT managers may be a bit wary and either play safe, or not jump
> into the market as much as they may otherwise have.
>
> Groupwise 7 on download now with Suse Linux bundled. I`ll compare to my
> exchange 2k3 and see what we think
>
>
> In Disguise wrote:
>
>> Tony,
>>
>> You may also want to check out www.iwantgroupwise.com for some other
>> info.
>>
>> Tony wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry my fault, thought GW6.5 was seqoiua. 7 is the new version ,
>>> with apparently (not tried beta yet) outlook connectors.I dislike the
>>> GW client itself, and even strong supporters of it admit that for
>>> "basic users" it doesnt have the look and feel of Outlook.
>>>
>>> My only worry with Novell is they are moving very Linux based, and
>>> whilst they state they are keeping the netware core and running it
>>> alongside I wonder how long it will be before a big re-training
>>> exercise may be needed. At that point I could see some companies
>>> retraining people in MS rather than Linux.
>>>
>>> Also if deciding check out the costs. Novell usually charge more per
>>> client access, but less for the actual product. MS are usually more
>>> for the product but less on client license. Therefore if you have a
>>> lot of users it may make more fiscal sense to go Outlook
>>>
>>> Additionally I dont know how well Groupwise would plug into say a
>>> Live Comms Server, Project Server , Shaepoint server which can help
>>> end users keep lots of information in one central location.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In Disguise wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tony,
>>>>
>>>> How about GroupWise 7? http://www.iwantgroupwise.com/
>>>>
>>>> Tony wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We are currently deciding between Groupwise 6.5 and Exchange 2003.
>>>>>
>>>>> We didnt like Groupwise 6.0 as we couldnt get the Outlook 2003
>>>>> connector to work correctly with it.
>>>>> Apparently thats now been fixed, and GW 6.5 goes beta soon ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Whats the actual technical problem ? I use both Console1 and
>>>>> NWadmin so know some of the differences.
>>>>> Also could you use Imanager for any of these tasks ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Christian wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Quest does have some good products.
>>>>>> CompuSven has a good mail shuttle that will aid in the migration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Repent34" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ODMaF4zVFHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You asked and I gave my 2 cents worth. All I can say to answer
>>>>>>> all of your questions is look at the market share. Ask anyone on
>>>>>>> the street about Novell, and they will say, Novell Who? The only
>>>>>>> reason Microsoft doesn't buy out Novell and dig a big hole and
>>>>>>> dump it in there is because of the DOJ. $80 billion vs $5
>>>>>>> billion speaks for itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, I am asking a technical question, nowhere did I state that
>>>>>>> I wanted to enter into a discussion with anyone as to why I'm
>>>>>>> doing what I'm doing. The fact is, I'm doing it. If you don't
>>>>>>> have an answer to my question, that's fine. Please drive through.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS, using Quest now anyway so this thread is mute.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:eTpl$eiVFHA.2420@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It has this to do with it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Moving from one email system to another is done for a few
>>>>>>>> reasons - political, technological, lack of admin skills, to
>>>>>>>> solve a particular problem, and so on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. If the reason for the switch is to solve a particular
>>>>>>>> problem, then you may already have the solution within your
>>>>>>>> current email system, but lack the knowledge / skills to
>>>>>>>> implement it, or the particular problem may require a change.
>>>>>>>> If you already have the solution in front of you, it may be a
>>>>>>>> whole lot easier / cheaper to solve that problem with what yo
>>>>>>>> have than to rip and replace an entire system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding the "ugly" comment - God knows where that comes from,
>>>>>>>> as you can use Outlook to access the GroupWise system, as well
>>>>>>>> as the web browser of your choice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do you quantify, "ugly"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do you come to the conclusion that "NetWare/GroupWise
>>>>>>>> sucks!"? If it's because you don't understand it, then
>>>>>>>> ignorance is to blame - not the technology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do "the users hate it"? Properly configured and
>>>>>>>> administrated, GroupWise (like any other email system, operating
>>>>>>>> system, application, et al) should be relatively problem-free.
>>>>>>>> If you have a mis-configured or under-powered server, then you
>>>>>>>> can hardly blame anyone but those administering / supporting the
>>>>>>>> system for the problems you've run into.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FWIW, I give the same argument for those wanting to move from
>>>>>>>> Exchange to GW - do what you can to get what you have working
>>>>>>>> properly first, then if you absolutely cannot get it to work the
>>>>>>>> way you want, then consider changing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Changing because of some blind loyalty to a particular company
>>>>>>>> is stupid at best, asinine at worst. As a CEO, I have fired
>>>>>>>> employees who can't see past their own "religious war" of
>>>>>>>> technology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not sure what that has to do with my question. IMHO
>>>>>>>>> Netware/Groupwise sucks. Novell is headed in the wrong
>>>>>>>>> direction and I doubt they will be in business much longer.
>>>>>>>>> Groupwise is ugly and my users hate it. I do to. You asked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "In Disguise" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:%23grw1P1UFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any good business or technical reason to switch? What stopped
>>>>>>>>>> you from upgrading to GroupWise 6.5?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Repent34 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have tried to implement the MS article called, "Appendix B,
>>>>>>>>>>> Configuration Proceedures for Migrating from Novell Groupwise
>>>>>>>>>>> Messaging Functionality". Where the breakdown is is that MS's
>>>>>>>>>>> paper is written for Groupwise5 which can use NWADMN32. The
>>>>>>>>>>> paper is written with NWADMN32 in mind. Since Groupwise6
>>>>>>>>>>> uses Console1, and not NWADMN32, there are several key steps
>>>>>>>>>>> that I cannot replicate under Console1. MS states in this
>>>>>>>>>>> paper that nothing has changed in Groupwise 6 so these
>>>>>>>>>>> proceedures will work. Say waht?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I cannot find an updated MS paper that addresses this issue.
>>>>>>>>>>> I would think that if MS wants us to migrate that badly to
>>>>>>>>>>> them that it shouldn't be this difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anybody tackled this yet??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

In Disguise

Repent34

In Disguise

Repent34

Bob Christian

Tony

In Disguise

Tony

In Disguise

Tony

In Disguise